Q : Whats the difference between a human being and an animal in India
A : If you shoot an animal, you go to jail even if you're a famous actor
If you shoot a human being and papa's in power in a North Indian state, you go scot free
Funny?
I didn't think so..
There are about 50 black bucks in the deer park in Punjab
There was only one Jessica Lall
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48 comments:
nicely put
bravo...u echo the sentiments of an enranged public!!
I thought salman khan was still out there...
well I guess you can say if you are an animal, atleast someone takes notice
I think it was in Rajasthan and not Punjab :p
Salman Khan still hasn't got caught for running over a man and killing him.
Anon1 : Salman has been sentenced by court to one year in prison.
Anil : I'm not disputing where salman's hunting happened - The punjab deer park are the only *facts* i could get confirmed (the 50 deer)
Anon2 : That he hasn't been punished for running over a street dweller proves my point about the value of human life in India doesn't it?
Why do we think that we [as humans] should be better off than animals??
And if someone got caught to shoot a black buck in Rajasthan and the murderer of Ms Lal is scott free then why is it more painful for us?
And had it been the other way round, it would have been any better? We would have felt lesser pain
Or its just that we identify with Ms Lal and not with the Buck since its not of our own species?
Ok lets look at it this way....
There are perhaps only some thousand black bucks remaining on planet earth with the numbers steadily declining [our salmaan wala buck was one of them] and there are in access of 6 Billion Humans [Ms Lal was one of them] with the numbers increasing alarmingly.
Which *logic* for GOD's sake explains us that our loss is bigger that theirs?
Very well said..
@sachin
The point here is that we should first learn to respect each other before preaching respect for animals.
Well then going by your arguements, we should ban all insect repellants/weed killers because the mosquitoes and the weeds have as much right as we do to live.
What happened to the survival of the fittest ? And for the case in study, we arent even able to guarantee our own survival.
Sachin,
maybe I didn't convey my point clearly enough. I hadn't said a black buck's life is less valuable than a thirty four year old model's.
I'd said that a thirty four year old model's life is NOT less valuable then a black buck's.
Additionally, the lady's murder going unpunished worries me more because :
* I am not a black buck. But in little more than a decade I WILL be thirty four. The idea of being murdered in cold blood with my killer walking away scot free does NOT appeal to me.
* Any species (ref: NatGeo) looks to its own survival first! A deer does not think it should agonize over a dead lion as much as it should over its own dead kin. Obviously, there are significant differences between your average animal species and human beings. But this debate is not about the animal kingdom vs human beings.
I suppose you could philosophize about how all aatma deserve respect. I agree. But if I was ever forced to prioritize, I'd choose a human being over any other species anyday. Call me specieist if you will.
It is like comparing apples and oranges. Even if we agree that human life is more precious than animal life still your argument is weak because you seem to mean that we should first solve the more serious crimes and then solve the less ones. So, does this means that till all the criminal cases are not solved, we should not even look into civil cases, assuming that criminal cases are more serious that civil cases. I dont think the system can prioritize on such subjective criterias and this whole discussion seems to be trivia. The two crimes are independent and they should be solved independent of each other. So why are we discussing this ?
mr bean.
you've got a great point. unfortunately it is not in direct opposition to what i said.
What i said was that to me a human life is more valuable than an animals. If you want to know why I feel this way, please do re-read my comment.
I didn't say that it was okay to kill animals as long as humans were getting murdered or that we should torture pups on the road cos of abu gharib. That would make your comment a splendid insightful retort. Unfortunately, that's not what i said, or believe.
My basic point was an observation on the legal system that let killers go scot free. I know that a legal system should let 100 guilty men go free but must not punish one innocent. I know all about reasonable doubt. Before I barf, please save those arguments for the thousands of undertrials languishing in jails.
Like most other things, politics, power, prestige are more valued than what's right. That's not to say the court was at fault.
Three eyewitnesses who were at the bar later turned hostile. One who is now acting in Hindi movies, actually said in court that he had signed the earlier statement without understanding it since he does not speak hindi.
Indian Bachelor, whether or not salman goes to jail - uptil now the system has functioned properly in this case..
funny but sounds true...btw are u gonna intern in ML at new jersey bcoz i spotted one ML office in NJ...anyway u rock
lol. this was just a supposedly cute way to "echo the sentiments of an enranged public!! " which backfired.
it would be nice if you guys who were posting anonymously would leave a name. you don't have to be a blogger user but a name would be nice and make it easier to reply as well..
thanks!
and anon 2 : It was supposed to make you stop and think. I still don't feel it backfired.
I'm sorry if i give less credence to anonymous posts. it just doesn't carry as much weight when you can't put your name behind your comments. This is not directed by any one anon. but at all in general.
With the exception of the few people who appear to have actually read your comment and are arguing rationally, why are most of the people commenting in your blog so filled with CRAZY???
You're more patient in answering them than I would be, either ;)
Titli.
argh, "too" not "either"
Although I read your blog from time to time, I usually don't comment because you always prove the same thing in all your posts. That you are a good writer who does cool things to write about. Nothing you said has ever provoked me in anyway. I've always felt the same way about you. A popular senior from my college. But this time round I couldn't quite control myself.
A lot of people read your blog. Quite a few of them are from your B-school or from SVCE or other college students. In short youth who could create an impact on the nation's future.What you say, generally has an impact on people because you've accomplished stuff many of us haven't. I wouldn't have bothered if your current post was based on your life like all your other posts but this one was basically a bad picture of our country. And after reading it people go like"Bravo! Well put! You echo the sentiments of an enraged public". That certainly is a put-off.Why do people always have to talk about Salman Khan when there are so many positive things happenning in the country. Why do people like you who have a good blog make people think negatively? You could do much better by motivating your friends to stay back in India and work towards developing the nation. You could put it in eloquent words at any rate.
Well. I don't know if it's my inability to comprehend, but I don't at all get the point of this post. If you're highlighting on 'an observation on the legal system that let killers go scot free', as I gather from the previous comments, there serves no purpose whatsoever to bring in the black buck case here. And if your point is the comparison between these two, IMHO,it really holds no meaning . Agreer that police have been a total failure in the Jessica case. And it enrages anybody and everybody. But that's how these things go on. Some cases mysteriously end within weeks. And some go on for years. A case is a case. Doesn't matter if one is killing a black buck or a human, though due to human emotions the latter assumes much more importance. Maybe I'm ignorant, but does the Law tell you to be more complacent on a black buck case than a homicide..? Investigations and trials are marred with fraudulence
and 'blatant' loopholes. It turns out for the postive in one, negative in another. Thats all.
Btw, i don't at all get Sinduja's point too.
:D
@ kartik:I just meant that the post was negative and a lot of people seem to think it's fine if suze says so. I didn't say that's wrong. I said she could put her position to good use. Encourage and motivate people instead of giving negative ideas.
Btw i agree with what you say. The law doesn't have to be complacent about the black buck. If this question was put up at some green peace forum "Men Vs Animal" we would have got entirely different responses. But again, as suze says she isn't a black buck so she doesn't care.
Sinduja.
I'm at loss. Please explain how the post is negative.
It's a negative potrayal of our country. Most of us are as it is sceptical about the country's shortcomings without having it pointed out to us.
Sin..
Man, you're patriotic!
I think sinduja is overestimating the effect of Suze Q on the psyche of youth. Yes, we read her blogs but it does not necessarily provoke/motivate me to change the world for better or for worse. its her view and i dont let it influence me in anyway just coz she is at IIMA or interning at ML.
But on the subject of Jessica Lal. I feel deeply hurt that her family couldnt find closure and instead have to live knowing that her killers are enjoying the benifits of the venal judicial system. I am upset that the powerful get away with murder and that little people's voices get drowned out. and just like this discussion ,it will shrivel into obscurity.
Well dilbert, this is not my blog and i can't keep defending myself, but maybe i'll just say this. Of course it looks like an over estimation but i was frankly looking at the bigger picture. I personally know people who get misguided by stuff quoted in sources that get many pageviews. Suze is my senior and many of us still talk about her in my college. She's been inspiring many of us with her success at IIM and that's why I think she shouldn't say negative things. Suze where are you? I want to know your reaction.
Sin,
Thanks for expressing a sentiment that i could possibly influence people's ideas..
I'm quite sceptical about it, but its a compliment - so, thank you..
As for the post being negative - Its something that irritated me, something that I felt I had something to say about. So said it. Yes, some of my posts are critiques about India and how a lot of things are wrong with it.
And its true. Being patriotic doesn't mean being closeminded. That would be performing a classic error that has lead to many a downfall. Do you really think that pretending India is perfect will help anyone? We write about things that are wrong so that they may be corrected.
If we said that the legal system is inadequate but lets keep quiet about it, will it ever become adequate? I think not.
Kartik, you're right - you hadn't comprehended what either I or sinduja had to say. I'll try to rephrase it a bit - I'm just observing the outcomes of two legal trials. As you've said - the legal system is fraught with loopholes and inadequacy. Perhaps you were expecting Moses's ten commandments here but honestly, That is That.
That's all I really did have to say. In terms of word efficiency I think it turned out okay :)
And Dilbert, I agree that little people's voices get drowned out. While blogging or discussing it is hardly significant, atleast its a start.. and ensures the case doesn't die off. Unlike other celebrity acquittals - this is living on in the memory of the mass media. Atleast THAT is a step forward.
A rather inappropriate way of putting a valid point across...
your emphasis (mistakenly I am sure) seems to be on the insignificance of shooting a black buck... why highlight injustice in one case by trivialising justice in another?
To all..
The purpose of this post was to highlight injustice by comparing with another recent high profile case.
If you feel I was trivializing black bucks, then perhaps you need to think about whether you are reading what is written or reading your personal agenda inbetween the lines.
A lot of comments on this post seem to be arguing for argument's sake. Which won't get us anywhere.
The main point of any writing is to make you think. If it did that, then I feel it has done its job.
THE End.
hmmm..Suze..I am beginning to like u :-)!
- ByStander Watchin !
I completely understand suze'role model' Q 's view. She was just highlighting the fact that the scales of justice aren't evenly balanced. but her point was sadly misinterpretted. and now she comes across (to some) as a animal hater who trivialises landmark cases.
But, suze. it may be a start to discuss it here but the motives of television channels are questionable. they see this as an opportunity to boost TRPs and not really ensure justice is done. we didnt see Tv channels rally round when the Best bakery judgement was made. they infact played a negative role in the riots with their propensity for sensationalism, fanning the flames for an already incendiary situation. and now they play the legal watchdogs? why cant they start with less glamorous cases. and why only with Jessica Lal? yes her life is more valuable than a black buck's(animal right activists can ignore this line) but is it worth more than the hundreds of lives lost in the Gujarat Riots.
I would like to see whether NDTV will continue this initiative once the interest of the viewers wane. it will be fascinatin to see whether we will be interested in two months.
Dilbert
Fortunately or Unfortunately that is how free market media works. Its a cycle. The viewer gets what the viewer wants and the viewer wants what the viewer gets.
Witness the utter dumbing down and sensationalism of mainstream American news channels.
We're slowly getting there. Once news channels realize they're on air 24/7 but don't have enough to say - they will create a bluster about anything remotely 'fan - able' to boost ratings.
But as always, alternative media will also flourish. And my mom and grandmom still catch the 8pm bulletin on Sun News - responsible reporting, even if it IS pro-DMK.
Well said..
the point the post seems to make is that animals get justice in this country and humans don't...
anyway, i get what you were trying to say... and the black bucks are irrelevant...
A conundrum this is, I find myself stuck
Was Jessica the exception? Or the black buck?
did a conservationist win? or a citizen lose?
Would I put myself, into either man's shoes
I've come to the point, where I don't give a fuck
read about it in the papers. what rubish judicial system is going on. its almost like whats happening here.
must say ur comment on Youthcurry and the post that was (Joka's Dirty Laundry Vs Vatrapur's Luncheon) has got u plenty of fans in Joka :D
Very late, but still. What makes us think that human life is more important than deers. I mean to an omnipotent god, a human life is as good as a stone. And I guess, the god would be more interested in the stone, cauze over 150 billion years, the stone offers a better object of interest. but not diverging from the topic. There were 50 deers and one jessica lal (well the comparision lacks something) its either 50 deers and 6 billion humans, or 1 deer (with some deer name) and 1 jessica lal.
:)
I really hink its about time u put up a new post or else you will not hear the end of it.
:))
guess, its ur blog n u have every right to say wat u feel. on d same note,ppl ve every right to comment on wat they feel.So,at d end of the day, there is no point in tellin "What you say, generally has an impact on people because you've accomplished stuff many of us haven't. " ( Sindhuja)
Gayathri
@suze: it happens only in india.....tats all i'll say
wow! i didnt evn think about tht!! so true!! it a sad state of affairs indeed!
India has evolved through several crises of confidence. A hundred years back we were subjugated by an alien power which exploited our own divisions. Fifty years back we pursued models of economic growth that ignored the power of the market and the individual and overemphasized the power of the State; and kept a few generations in needless poverty. Thirty years back a greedy coterie attempted to reverse democracy for the sake of remaining in power. Fifteen years back one rogue stockbroker created a "Ponzi chain" whose collapse shifted wealth from many to a few. As a country and as a society we have dealt with these and evolved toward the good and the better.
We need to do more. Emphasize liberty as much as we emphasize democracy. Emphasize the Individual more than we emphasize the State or the People. Emphasize Rule of law more than we emphasize rule by duly elected law makers. We would. (Everyone would, according to Francis Fukuyama in "The End of History and the last man").
In the meanwhile, criticism of the existing system is an invaluable must. Someone who burns our flag is just as much patriotic as someone who dies for it.
But we need to be cautious about fallacies. That a crime that wrongly escaped punishment is more tolerable than a crime that got rightly punished does not reflect the relative value we place on crimes. Good sound bite but bad logic.
The voice of conscience in Salman's case was more powerful than the ability of Salman to manipulate the system. The voice of consicence in Jessica's case never had an opportunity to express itself until the judgment was delivered. In the end justice will prevail.
For the murderer; for the MNC friend; for the politician father; for the socialite bar owner; for the errant Police officer.
The Judge is not to be blamed. He has to go by witnesses and evidence. I would not want him to bring his consicence into the picture. People fought very hard for "innocent until proven guilty" to evolve as a principle in this society.
This is just a temporary victory of greed over fear. However, India has not remained unresponsive to it. Like Suze, thousands are protesting. It would be impossible for everyone involved to ignore this and get on with life.
Jessica Lal's death would get avenged by our justice system in the end. To keep protesting until then is an important leverage.
Of course women are very important to India. As much as men and blackbucks.
Our evolution from a "network based society" to a "rule based society" is on traction. We are not there yet. But we are proceeding in the right direction.
what is the use of so many ppl living anyway?? murder should be made legal in my opinion.. all useless people die!! animals are way better...
very nicely put. Though we should be happy that atleast some portion of our legal system is working fine. Wonder were was all this media when the battle was being fought in the court & lost. Actually we don't see much follow up on the senstational cases do we? A news today might not be here on the channel 2morrow.
Well cheers to the fact that atleast the case got reopened.
amazing words..
Tx vinod and chander
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