When you decide that 22.5% more seats should be reserved for special categories in higher educational institutions, several things could happen :
Magically, this could somehow improve the primary educational system to ensure that the quality of minority students entering equals or exceeds the quality of non-minority students entering the institute.
They could have access to jobs and rewards in the economic world to the same measure as 'mainstream' students without being subtly discriminated against, or side tracked like some of the other students who join institutes through non merit channels.
Until a few years ago, one could very clearly tell who had joined engineering college through the 'NRI - capitation' route, and who joined through the merit category. This stark difference could possibly not be replicated under Arjun Singh's scheme of things.
Better education opportunities could trickle down to reach those who really need it and government could at last stop with messy vote grabbing exercises and truly function 'for' the people.
Or, if you're a cynic like me, you'd worry instead that you could buy OBC certificates for Rs 1000.
I don't believe a reservation program should start in graduate school. The place for real reservation? In kindergarten. 50% of new schools set up by state government should be in areas that don't have access to primary education currently. Instead of perrenially doing what is easy or lucrative, the government should step up and reform education so that it is available to every child. Instead of playing state politics and planning long protests to bring back the mother tongue into schools and insist that all the gains we've made over the last 40 years by being educated in English - be wiped out, politicians should focus on getting textbooks, materials and teachers to those schools.
Instead of spending endless amount of the publics time on discussing whose version of history is right, politicians should implement policies that bring and keep children in school - so that they may avail of that education.
Having a reservation at AIIMS will not ensure that there are more dalit doctors, or that they are better treated. Equipping 30 Dalit children so that they are not denied the opportunity to become engineers or doctors or astronauts by giving them a good primary education, access to clean water and healthcare and the ability to get into AIIMS without needing reservations - now THAT will make a difference.
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Updated :
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/devils-advocate-arjun-singh/11063-4-1.html
Do read this article. Is this articulate gentleman the person we want making decisions??
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28 comments:
I agree!
Two wrongs dont make a right and reservation has only increased discrimination.If our politicians think that the concept of reservation is indispensable atleast it should be based on economic status.
Hm.. Given how efficient Government-run schools are, I don't think setting up new schools _anywhere_ would help much.
And the part about politicians perenially doing what is easy or lucrative, or playing state politics and planning long vain protests, come now, they wouldn't be politicians otherwise :)
Somehow, I don't think there is any solution to this other than the politicians 'turning good'... and that I fear is rather impossible..
nth post i've read on reservation! :)
i agree completely!! reservations should be implemented at elementary education levels!! no point reserving seats in IIT for people who don't have grasp of basic education!!
you might also want to check out sagaro's and abhi's posts if u got time!! :)
@Suze:
Agreed, primary schooling and stuff. But it will take time. That doesnt mean reservations in top instis have to wait. Point is if there is 50 percent reservations, then it means there is demand for these reservations. I say let the primary thing happen. But this reservation has to stay.
@S:
"no point reserving seats in IIT for people who don't have grasp of basic education!!"
How do you know they dont have grasp of basic education. Most entrance exams dont check your grasp, they check only: Speed and quantity and NOT quality. A FC goes to hajar classes like IIMS, Time etc. and equips himself with speed and quantity (200 questions a day they do), a OBC guy, at least most of them don't have money for these classes... In which case the reservation helps them also get into a college where they get equal fecilities to learn.
actually no...entrance exams like JEE, AIEEE test ONLY your grasp and not ur fact-knowledge - that only tnpcee.
u've got to have a good grasp of the fundas in PCM to be even remotely successful in aieee/jee!! and frankly - that can't be achieved by only going to extra coaching classes!! :)
@S:
Why do then people waste so much for IIT coaching and CAT classes.
BTW there are two forms of answering a question. One: you have never seen theat kinda problem and go about solving it by grouping around the intutive answer. You think of an approach, dont know whether its true and go about solving it by some trail or error method. The way olympiads work. The questions require you to have a good grasp of the subject.
two: You have done a million sums on the same lines. For instance the quadratic equation (just an example), only the co-effecient changes each time. and we know how to go about it... the types which come in school, IIT, CAT etc. Implies you dont need grasp, u need speed and quantity...
And please CAT requires no knowledge... it requires only speed. People spend 15K and you are telling me, extra courses dont have much of an effect...
Sagaro - CAT requires no knowledge? Only speed? Interesting point of view. I don't agree at all. Maybe we should wait until you've actually studied for and written the exam.
Besides, I'm not sure if you're aware - but there is another round besides the CAT to enter a bschool.
You've lumped togethere learning by rote, IIT, CAT all under one umbrella. I didn't go to an IIT but I wouldn't say their exam is an easy one that requires learning by rote.
In fact, I think its a bloody difficult exam to get through. You may not agree - your personal right to do so. Was your college entrance exams a significant intellectual exercise unlike these pathetic wastes of time like the JEE, CAT, AIEEE etc? ;-p
And starting with 50% reservation in graduate schools without providing the people who are supposed to use that reservation with a toolkit to use that education??
I still don't see how reservations would help!
Reservations issue brings out that all the young "leaders" of the Congress or any other party are not leaders of the youth....they only derive power out of whatever their dead political leader parents have left for them.
Statements like "reservations is a complex issue. both sides have valid arguments. discussions are needed"!!...come onnn..take a stand...be a man!
deeply disappointed in the political leadership of this country. If Manmohan Singh does not have the courage to come out in the open and speak out himself he is only going to prove that he is leading a weak and useless shadow government!!
bring back the mother tongue into schools and insist that all the gians we've made over the last 40 years by being educated in English
Well, I thought that gian is tranlated into gain in WIMWI! Here is somebody staying with gian!!
In an ideal world, primary education would be fixed, people would all begin on an equal footing when they take these exams. But you still have one generation of people out there to take care of- these things even if done, take time! And they suffer through no faulf of theirs.... but mn bel;ief is still this: many lives are definitely better owing to the reservation than they would've been without it.
Also, the problem with the IIMs in particular is the geographical bias that has come into the selection process. You can see the difference, IITs have small town boys and guys from villages etc doing well... the IIMs are almost an exclusive domain of the big city people (and I'm guessing lots more OCs, FCs though I don't have data for this), the IITians and only those small town people who have been to premier undergraduate institutions. Are we saying that these are the best guys for business education in India? Imagine the number of Marwari businessmen, the textile traders of Tiruppur... there is something wrong ... definitely!
I'm not leaving a name because I want the comment to be taken without it being biased by who is commenting
@Suze:
Well CAT doesnt require big knowledge. It requires basic stuff, to be done quickly and without mistake. I saw few of my seniors doing those sums in the bus.
Secondly as "a" said, there are so many guys from villages who do great in the IITs. For instance, 1993, IIT gold medalist, went to a student who was SC and poor and got thro reservation.
And dont come up witht he importance of the enterance exams. What does Business studies have to do with a bucnh of mathematical questions. Borrowing from 'a', if a set of Marwaris wrote CAT, I bet none would pass.
And camon, cant you think any further than the OBCs getting into IIM not having proper education. sorry! All of them have good education, dont talk about corporation school, they have done a degree and passed it in some college. The reservation is implemented, becas these people didnt have enuf money to train themselves at IIMS or Time. What pleasure do you derive by beating a poor kid, after goign to 2 years of training, when both of you have same knowledge. Personally, tell me does IIMS teach you anything extra that you didnt know, but only speed.
Oh and IIT-JEE is all about practice. Balaji made me do the whole of irodov, and I ended up getting a 52 on 60 in physics. I knew how to approach a problem even before starting on it. The only reason I lost those 8 marks were because of careless mistakes. Thats exactly why TRS gives 200 sums homework for every chapter and Govi gives hajar sums on organic chemistry... If it was only grasping then why give so many sums on the same lines...
Nope, TNPCEE is also all about speed and quant. Thats exactly why I have low IQ peeps in my college.
"And starting with 50% reservation in graduate schools without providing the people who are supposed to use that reservation with a toolkit to use that education??"
Again, they are already equipped with education, they only need that extra training that you guys got at IIMS :P
anon3 - welcome back :) and thanks for pointing out the typo.
Will correct it.
There are 5 billion people on this planet - you can always find anecdotes to justify one point of view. From a fundamental rational perspective - reservation without reforming the primary education system is useless. Hopefully, reservation after reforming the primary education system is irrelevant.
Arent you the one pointing out exceptions... And its no longer primary education, what about peeps who got primary education, undergrad degree, but cant afford extra coaching and stuff?
@ sagaro:
u ever heard of scholarships?
@Girish:
People get scholarships only after entering an institute...
very true.
Any concessions should be given at the grass-root level.
And even if they do go ahead with this,the actual persons who beneifit from this are the OBCs who are well off and arent really under any form of discrimination.
OBC certificates for Rs 1000? It can never go worser than this.
The question is not about whether reservation should be there or not. The question should be that why should a govt. get away with such a poorly designed policy.
All the B-school grads like us will keep on writing and laughing at the interview that he gave to Karan Thapar. But none of us will stand up against it. We wont even care to do a term project that can help the country.
I put up some pics on the AIIMS protest against reservations. You should check them out.
http://rhapsoder.blogspot.com/2006/05/mandal-ized.html
I'd like to point out situation of 'Quota' system and minorities from POV of another culture.
America and Canada(AFAIK) have the system of 'Affirmative Action'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action,
which is to support minorities (Blacks, Hispanic/Mexican, American Indians (Red Indians)).
They are *NOT* on some 'Quota' basis especially as a % of the whole. There is a fixed-number (note not a % of whole)
of scholarships to support people from such-and-such an ethnic background, and preferential review of their applications and admissions.
Having said that, ancestors and familial history have a long way to go in education. So caste is no 'Great leveller'.
I know people of the so-called forward castes who struggle to make ends meet. I know people from so-called
SC/ST who are 2nd or 3rd generation professionals (Law,Medicine). So how about OBC treatment for first generation
graduate alone? Why should reservations be a pain-in-the-neck of every Indian forever? Do somebody make/think like that?
Politicians do this 'Race-to-the-bottom', 'Least-common-multiple' thing. Someone (note: not They) should instead do the GCD thing with mindsets and people. If we race to the bottom (which Feynman says, theres plenty of room to stay [http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/feynman.html]) then where goes things like being the next-developed-nation? Somehow
Arjun Singh & Co, who I voted for (deeply regret), have no idea [read from interview link on Blog] about this
perpetual albatross-around-the-neck.
Born-poor, Live-poor & Die-poor will always be in the same vicious cycle, if we keep doling out free-electric-power (MW's) to so-called poor-farmers, waiving loans on farmers(courtsey Kalaingar), and everlasting SC-ism for 2nd & 3rd
generation graduate families then the sun may never rise over India. (DMK, no offense meant.)
Hi Sujatha,
Really thought provoking post ! It really is a valid point that reservation should start right from kindergarden !
However, I think even if reservation was prevailent in AIIMS and IIMs the lot that will make it would be the better ones who have been toned and trained in the right way, but probably not the best way to get there...
Wat say ?
Future Shock
Wisdomless Politicians
Meritless Admissions
Meaningless Curriculums
Substance less Examinations
Faculty less Departments
Student less Colleges
VC less Universities
Knowledgeless Society
Developmentless Nation
Into that hell of gloomdom
My Father, let my country
go to Sleep
let my country go to Sleep.....
Poem by BR Natarajan BITS Pilani
finally a piece on reservation that talks about primary education. initially, i was surprised that noone spoke about this as an alternative. but i think the problem comes down to money and scale (discounting things like corruption etc.) the top of the education pyramid (college education) has fewer people compared to the base (primary) making it easier to manage (read force people/institutes into something). my two cents...
(grandpa?) Arvind :)
check this out
http://just-not-cricket.blogspot.com/2006/06/reservations.html
--prem
Decent post but most people know all this - any comments on why there is so much opposition to "reservations" but not as much opposition to "management quota"
Have read ur blog since it had 5000 hits.. Now it has 50,000...Good going..I am sure I would have contributed a few hundreds
- ARA
ARA, Thanks :)
http://nissimnabar.blogspot.com/2006/05/reservations-about-reservations.html
Wrote this some 4 days after you wrote yours I guess. Came across your blog today. Which SVCE is this?
Really nice blog.
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